So, it all began with a phone call from Todd Oliver. "David, you should really get Brad Cummings on VOG. He's great!" So, I immediately sent Brad an email and he immediately wrote back and said "yes" to an interview. That was a year ago. Chock it up to my great skills of procrastination. Well, we did connect and what a treat it was.
Brad is up there with the best of em'. He has all the credentials, you know, network TV, review shows, cruise ships and corporate dates. Variety called him an "Excellent ventriloquist AND comedian." High praise from the literary standard of the entertainment business.
It was a reflective interview from one who has 'been there.' And, there is wisdom in this talk. So join me now, and meet Brad Cummings on Vent-o-Gram.
Where are you living these days?
British Columbia, Canada.
Are you Canadian?
I’m a dual citizen of both countries. I met a girl here back in 2000. We got married and I eventually got citizenship because it was too much of a hassle going back and forth all the time. So now I have two passports.
Welcome to the Vent O Gram
I love the Vent O Gram. When I was a little boy my Mom somehow found an old mimeographed Vent O Gram. You know the 8 X 11 colored sheets stapled together. She gave it to me and I immediately subscribed! And now, here you are all these decades later.
I had the same experience. Running to the mailbox, waiting for it to arrive.
I know. It was so great.
Eventually, I ended up with a complete set (Thank you Tom Ladshaw). It was very nostalgic to me, that’s why I adopted the name and nobody has sued me so I guess we’re good to go. (Laughter).
How old were you when you subscribed to the Vent O Gram?
Ten.
How did you get interested in Vent?
Well that is where my story is quite different. I had no intention of becoming a performer when I learned vent. I used to read a series of novels written by Kenneth Robeson. The hero was Doc Savage. He was a crime fighter back in he 1940’s. He always saved the world.
What does that have to do with ventriloquism?
Well, whenever he got into a predicament, he could throw his voice to fool the bad guys. It always got him out of a jam. I loved Doc Savage so much that I made a list of all his accomplishments. You know, everything he could do. He was great physically, he was incredibly intelligent. And Vent was just one of those things on my list to learn so I could be like Doc Savage.
How did you discover Doc Savage?
Through a friend of my parents. He just thought I would enjoy reading Doc Savage. And, as it turned out, he was right.
Are the books still available?
Yeah, they’re still out there, but you would have to search for them.
Are there any characters today that parallel Doc Savage?
Well, he is kind of like a precursor to Batman. A vigilante outside the law. He did his own thing, his way. He didn’t involve the police. He took care of the bad guys.
Do you still have his books.
I do. I’m looking at a couple right now as we speak. To me, they are classics. And, I still go back and read them from time to time. They’re great. And I love it when he uses ventriloquism to allude the bad guys!
So that was your introduction to vent.
Yes, but like I said, I had no intention of pursuing it. It was one of those things I just checked off my list. He was a hypnotist, I was a hypnotist. He read books, I read books. He was a master of physics and engineering. So, I took books out on those subjects. I was ten years old! Now it is a real point of nostalgia for me.
What else are you nostalgic about?
I love old show business. I love it and I miss it. It is so different now.
Can you pinpoint an era for me?
I love the 50’s. And even the 40’s. When I was a kid, I thought I would be a big star on television because there were so many variety shows. And then as you know, all those shows disappeared.
Yeah, but you managed to appear on quite a few of those old shows.
Yes, that’s because I caught the end of it. I started working pro in the early 70’s and they were still around. But, I wasn’t ready to do them. It was in the 80’s and 90’s that I started doing the TV shows.
You say you weren’t ready. What does it take to get ready?
Well, you have to have an act! (Laughter). I started doing school assembly programs and those don’t require much originality. Eventually, I moved to LA and got into the world of comedy. That is when I realized I had to be original.
How do you define original?
Doing things that others are not.
Well like most endeavors, there is a herd mentality out there where everyone is doing the same thing. But, looking at your characters, I could see right away that there is a thread of originality that runs through everything you do.
Thanks for noticing. Hanging out with comedians in LA made a big difference. I used to play comedy clubs and of course all the comedians used to mockingly say, “Oh, you’re a PROP act.”
At least according to them.
Yes. As far as they were concerned you were not on their level. So that really motivated me. I used to pick up a lot of lines from comedians. Maybe I was trying to gain their respect. I don’t know. But, that eventually evolved to my wanting to be original.
Tell me more.
Well, that is how Rex the Dinosuar coming out of the egg was born. Up until then I was using a Jack Coats figure. I still have that figure today, but I eventually phased out of the ‘cheeky’ boy.
Who made Rex?
The first one was made by Phil Hettema. I think he was working under Rene Zendajas. I just presented the idea and they ran with it.
Let me go back for a minute. I think we missed something. When you were young you decided you wanted to do this as a pro. What was the impetus behind that?
Paul Winchell. I used to watch his show religiously. I was just blown away by Winchell. His manipulation, the use of the figures arms and hands. That really stuck with me. Then one time when I went to check out a Doc Savage book, I also got the Winchell Fun and Profit book. So that is what got me started. I now have an original first edition which I recently had restored.
Was the book helpful?
Well, when I was reading it, I didn’t have any sounds to know whether I was doing vent correctly or not. It was really hard. I didn’t believe that you could say the labials without moving your lips by substituting different sounds. I didn’t buy into that right away. I thought if I just kept saying BFMPV eventually my lips would stop moving. (Laughter). Eventually I got the Jimmy Nelson record. Then it all came together. Thank goodness for Jimmy Nelson.
Were you in contact with any other vents?
Finis Robinson. I was always in touch with him. We wrote all the time. Paul Stadelman was another one who always wrote back. Jimmy Nelson too. I still have all the letters.
Finis Robinson Paul Stadelman Jimmy Nelson
WS Berger?
No, but I should have. I read about him all the time in the Vent O Gram.
Did you ever meet Paul Winchell?
You know, I did. I was on a cruise ship out of LA. Well, I’m rehearsing for the show, and this man walks in and starts imitating me doing my sound check. His voice sounded really familiar to me. Anyway, he is imitating me in a fun sort of way and I look at him and see this little white haired man and I said, “Are you Paul Winchell?” “Yes I am,” he says. And I start freaking out. I eventually invited him to the show and he came and sat right in the front row!
Talk about pressure.
Well, he’s loving the show! And then, midway through I introduce him to the audience. He loves it. Gets up, comes on stage and I’m thinking OMG what is he going to do? He grabs the mic and tells a a couple of jokes and then compliments me to the audience.
Wow.
Later on that night we had dinner together. And the next morning my phone rings and it is Winchell. He says, “Were in Catalina, let's do something.” So we spent the whole day together.
Did you read his book “Winch?”
Yes, and I’ll tell you he had a dark side.
Tell me more.
Well, we were in a restaurant having lunch and of course I was asking him about his career. He kept changing the subject and saying “I don’t want to talk about that stuff.” But he did want to talk religion and his book about God. He told me about all the death threats he got as a result of that book. (God, religion without the Bible.) He also talked about his 3 ex wives and how awful they were and how his kids never talked to him.
But he never talked about Vent.
No, but not for lack of trying on my part. He just wouldn’t go there.
Did you ever meet Jimmy Nelson?
Yes. I went out to see him one time with my Dad. He couldn’t have been nicer. I went backstage. Like I said, he couldn’t haver been nicer.
Bergen?
No, but I’ll tell you this. I used to watch him on TV in the 60’s and 70’s and I was just fascinated. Of all the vents he taught me how important character was as opposed to not how good you are, technique-wise or anything else. I was completely taken by his relationship with Charlie and Mortimer. Amazing.
Through your career, where have you worked? Any particular sectors where you have worked most?
Well, the business has changed and is ever changing. But, and this is all due to Sammy King, another one of my mentors, I have worked a lot of review shows.
How did Sammy influence you?
I was on a cruise ship in Puerto Rico and he was on a show. I went backstage and again he was as nice and kind as he could be. Watching him do ten minutes in a review show blew me away. He could grab an audience so fast. Her had a strong beginning, middle and end. Plus, I must admit, I was quite taken with all the showgirls back then! (Laughter)
So you got into review shows?
Yes, this was in the 80’s and 90’s. I worked Reno, Tahoe, Las Vegas and other rooms. There was so much work. I basically went from show to show. Like Sammy, I would do long runs. The only downside was that in 10 minutes you had to produce every night. You couldn’t experiment or try new material
How do you get your material?
Well, of course, I have to put it together myself. But, I won’t lie, I’ve had writers over the years. But you know, the best source for me have always been comedians. Many comedians are very gracious with their time and ideas. Their have been a couple who have become friends which results in a lot of comedy brainstorming. I’m grateful for that.
Interesting. Every time I have worked with comedians they are always gracious with ideas. You know, “If you would try such and such a line here, it would be great.”
That’s how their minds work. They are always thinking about a punch line. Whereas ventriloquists have so many other aspects to think of, comedians are totally punchline focused.
Let’s talk about your TV stuff. How did that all come about?
My first TV show was in LA. I was there in a stand up comedy competition. I became a finalist. The prize was that we were flown to Hawaii to tape a show for Showtime which was just starting out. It was called the Hawaii big laugh off. That was my first TV.
Did that lead to anything?
Well, things are always leading somewhere. I started doing opening acts. The first was the Captain and Tennille. Their manager then hooked me up with Merv Griffin.
Did you have to audition?
Well, its strange. They didn’t come out to see me work. I went to them. I went down to CBS, and go into this small office with no windows. Les Sinclair, the producer says, “Nice to meet you. Show me what you do.” So I took out Rex and the Egg. We did a few lines and then I did the closing song which I had on a cassette player! He says, “OK that’s great, you’re on.”
How did the show go?
Great, but I’ll tell you what is really funny. Before the show I asked Les if Merv was going to call me over to the couch after my set! Les looked at me and said: “No Brad, that’s not going to happen.” (Laughter). But, being in LA helped. I’m hearing about all these things and I just became assertive so I ended up on Evening at the Improv, Comedy on the Road, Caroline’s comedy Hour, shows like that. Then I did the Vicky show with Jim Barber and Dan Horn. I was lucky. And I did many of the Jerry Lewis telethons.
Did you like Jerry?
Yes. I know there are stories but he was always great to me.
Well, when you talk about old show business pros, Jerry Lewis certainly qualifies.
Yes. I was so nervous. I was in awe. You know I also worked with Bob Hope and Sammy Davis Jr?
I had to share a dressing room with Hope! I said, “I’m sorry sir, I guess we have to share this room.” “Don’t worry kid,” he says. “Come on in, its all right.” I was so green in some of these situations but I managed to pull it off.
Brad and Sammy Davis Jr Bob Hope, Joey Villa, Rex and Brad
What about Letterman during the ventriloquist week.
Letterman was the highlight of my career. I followed him from the 80's when he started on TV and to be a guest on his show was beyond words. The set went great and it was such a relaxed environment to be in when I did it back in 2007. I really can't put much more into words regarding all of it except to say how amazing the experience was and the feedback I got from it over the years. Oh yeah, meeting Paul Schafer was also fun as we talked music since I did use music in my act for the taping and he loved my charts. Both he and Dave were great.
Are you happy with the direction your career has taken?
Tough question. I mean, if you ask any performer that what are they going to tell you? Oh yeah I did everything right or I have no regrets. I don’t think so. I’m pretty honest with myself. You know, I worked alongside Jeff Dunham. We were working in comedy clubs. Eventually, I moved out of the clubs. I think what Jeff did was smart. He stayed in the clubs in the beginning. I don’t know whether he did that consciously or not. But it paid off. Staying in the clubs keeps you mainstream. You’re more likely to be seen by influential people. They can move your career. But I went a different route.
There are a lot of people out there with a lot of talent. Some rise to the top, some don’t. What is that all about? What do you attribute your success to?
Well, obviously, like I said you need to be ready. Be the best you can be. But as a vent, to me, everything is about character. That is why Jeff is so successful. Character, character, character. Sammy King would tell you that. But add to that an attitude that you simply will not give up. You know your’e good, you make the connections. It is also who you know. Remember that. Connections are important.
Lets talk about character for a bit. You have Rex, but also Jack in the Box , Tony the Wise Guy and Roz the Alien. Tell me about those guys.
Jack in the Box came from a toy that I had. And, I always did impressions. So Jack in the box, became Jack Nicholson.
What is the audience reaction to Jack?
When I first started doing it, the character got applause as soon as he popped out of the box. But it is not a bit that I can sustain for very long you know? However, short bits in your act can be good as long as they’re strong.
What about Tony?
When I was a kid, I always loved gangsters. You know, Cagney, Bogey and all those guys. I was also a big Sopranos fan. So, from that came Tony, the Wise guy. He can be pretty edgy and in your face!
Then you have Roz the Alien.
Well, we always think of aliens as being intelligent. Why is that? What if there was an alien like Mortimer? (Laughter). He is not the brightest card….All in all, I would like to think that I’ve come up with some different characters.
Anyone ever steal you material?
Oh sure. And that is irritating. There is not a lot you can do about it. It is one thing to be using what I call ‘public domain’ jokes, it’s another thing when someone lifts your bits verbatim.
Happen to you?
Yes.
It doesn’t make sense to me. I have seen situations where people lift other peoples acts, It doesn’t work. I know that Sammy King was allowing people to do his act toward the end. But, I never saw anyone successfully do it. However, I have taken stuff from Sammy’s act, (with his permission) you know fragments, and kind of integrated his gags into what I do.
I know…and then it starts to evolve and becomes your own.
So, what do you think of the state of the art today?
Depends on how you look at it. There is a lot less work. The business has really changed. Cruise ships have become the new comedy clubs. But, that kind of travel, being on a boat all the time will kill you. The review shows are pretty much dead. A lot has changed and it will be interesting to see where it finally shakes out.
What about the singing ventriloquist thing?
Well, as you well know, singing is a whole lot easier than the public thinks it is. People say, “Oh that has got to be so hard to do.” Well, its not. End of story. (Laughter) It’ll certainly fill a few minutes and you don’t have to get laughs. On the other hand, Terry (Fator) has done great with it. He’s had a lot of copy cats you know.
So Brad, you’re a vent. That is how you have made your living. Any heros?
Well I look up to Jeff (Dunham) and Jay (Johnson) By the way, did you know I was called for that Soap audition? I actually got a call back for it. But Jay had the perfect TV look. I had a big Afro (laughter). I have naturally curly hair and I had this humongous fro. I looked like Willie Tyler and Lester back then only I was white! (Laughter)
What’s next for you?
I’m starting to do some one nighters now. You know corporate stuff. The business has changed so much. I keep thinking, what can I do that is so topical that the powers that be simply couldn’t ignore you? It is hard to come up with that kind of stuff. To answer your question though, I still love it. I’m teaching now and enjoying passing the craft on to others.
As far as performing goes, i’m going to keep doing it.
Who are you? Are you still Brad Cummings the ventriloquist?
Yeah, I think so. From the time I was a shy little boy, it is what I have done. It was my way to connect with people. But, at the same time, even at this stage in my life, I’m still a shy person. But here is the thing, I try to enjoy every moment. Talking with you about my career has really been significant and frankly, even though I identify as a vent, I still don’t know what i’m going to do when I grow up!
Well for whatever its worth, I’m still wondering about that myself.
Yeah, well, you just keep doing it. That’s what I’ve found anyway.
Somebody asked me the other day what was it that I really love to do? That is a poignant question. Because, in life, if you can find that ‘thing’ it makes all the difference in the world. But most people never do. Thoreau said that "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." So, now, I would ask you the same question. Have you been doing what you really love to do all you life?
Yes.
Doc Savage once said: ““Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, that all may profit by it.”
And so it is with Brad Cummings
FINIS
To find out more, go here: https://www.bradcummings.org/
To see Brad in action go here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb0y_z1vpNM&t=122s
Fantastic interview! I loved it!